i have it also on my 2.5 legacy. 48. HID lights are significantly brighter than traditional halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at night. How do I know if my BMW timing chain is bad? Then stop at the TDC mark. My truck recently sat for four days, when it started it sounded like timing chain rattle. As we understand the problem, as the 3.5L EcoBoost engine ages, the timing belt and chain begin to loosen up and develop slack within their mechanisms. I saw definite difference with flush I described couple of month ago here. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Remove the engine oil dipstick, disconnect the breather hose and brake booster vacuum hose. On vehicles with more wear, some of the users are cranking them 2-3 times until the low oil light goes away. BMW Petrol Engine Timing Chain Failure A range of BMW petrol engines in cars registered between 2001 to 2015 appear to have a design problem affecting the timing chain or tensioner. My car's problem was a rattle during start up. Because the tensioner is hydraulic, and pressurized with engine oil. 21. If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. Hello, my 2011 3.8 has a rattling sound upon startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time. Some handy mechanics are finding ways to hardwire pre-oiler tanks into their engine compartments. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. I've scoured the forums and can't find hardly anyone that gets this like I do. I'm fairly certain this is the same issue that plagued many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the EB motor. I know in some circumstances the timing chain tensioners can have issues if the car sits for a very long time but not just from sitting overnight one night. Spark plugs are the canary in the coal mine of the combustion chamber. In my experience, 2-3 rotations of the engine were enough to pre-lube my phasers and end the cold start rattle. Since I know about the warranty (I also have a 2009 JSW 2.0 TDI with 330,000 miles :-D) I looked closely at the 3.0 warranty. 22. 31. Feed the tool down through the camshaft drive chain to rest on the timing chain. GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, 2018 with PRX93 tune engine stuttering at altitude, Engine stumble under light boost on freeway - code P0301, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3]. The timing chain. :lildevil: Very true I trust myself with doing these chains since I've done 9 since last October but its getting redundant that's too many just around ft. Email or pm me your vin and I can check the special coverage status. Do not force it on. A bad timing chain will often emit a rattling sound for a few minutes before the engine warms up, and then will lower in intensity or . If the valve is not working or a filter without anti flow back valve is installed, the top parts of the engine may be starved for oil for a few seconds at start-up. Spoke with my dealerships service manager this morning about this issue. Driving with a bad timing chain could give you serious engine damage, and its also dangerous because it could cause your vehicle to stop suddenly without warning. Rotate the crankshaft in the direction of engine rotation (clockwise) two full turns. Really hope I don't run into any headaches having them fix it. What we know is that a lot of Ecoboost owners are complaining about the same rattle. Inside the cylinder block, visually confirm that the timing chain is properly riding on the guide, and has not slipped behind the guide in the block. Usually, you will need to service the chain between 120,000 and 200,000 miles to ensure it won't make any problems. There are a lot of other engine parts that must be removed before you even get to the timing chain! . For a luxury model, the price of a replacement kit may cost over $4,000. Your email address will not be published. Your email address will not be published. +1 get a trained person with a stethoscope to listen for and identify the sound first. Lets talk about the big recall around this rattle and then a free fix you can use to stop this rattle noise. At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds. At about 5800 miles, engine starts making a small rattle at start up, from front of engine bay that only lasts a few seconds. MI5. It was NOT the higher pitched rattle of the wastegates. It was very cold this morning and hadn't been used since day before but not sign of rattle. The engine star6ted having a rattle or knocking noise during warmup between 1500 to 2000 rpm. Replace if needed. With premium diesel, you have a lot to lose, and nothing to gain. Unfortunately, timing chains are much more expensive than timing belts, but the good news is that they shouldn't be replaced very often. It gradually goes away after the engine warms up to normal temp. That will save some wear. Mercedes 2014, C Class 220 Diesel Automatic Blutec W205. Why do timing chains make a rattling noise? But it gives us some clues as to a solution, even on these older vehicles. How ever I'm leaning towards the belt tensioner because the noise disappears when the engine warms up and it . 28. Most OE spark plugs have a life of more than 50,000 miles, thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals like platinum and iridium. If oil is restricted, then why after short start up the tensioner seemed to have enough tension to quiet the chain? No CEL/MILs and the truck runs great. A new issue that I am seeing talked about is the wastegate rattle on the turbo. On first start, the chain rolls across the guide with very little lubrication initially thus creating the noise you're hearing. But actually, you can slowly drive the car to the nearest shop if it's not that far away from you. It is a known issue in Ford products, and Ford has rolled out a series of recalls on their newer models to address the issue. Feb 13, 2015. Unusual noises: Especially when idling, but not just when idling, you may hear your engine rattle. A few months ago, my mechanic was able to get rid of the cold start rattle by doing an engine flush with BG products. The oil level is right in the middle of normal on the dipstick. Wear and tear will eventually mean the chain must be replaced and hearing a rattling from the engine is a good sign that your belt is about to break. Replace the VTC actuator. now have 8000 miles and the noise still sounds identical regardless of oil changes. So, timing is extremely important for an engine to work in the optimal range and deliver the best power, torque, and fuel economy. Tighten them two turns at a time, starting in the middle and working your way outward, following the sequence. Completed my timing chain rattle slap on cold start-up job. Since oil is the magical cure, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines. Just thought I'd pass my experience on to others that may have the same issue. Remedy: Ford Expeditions commonly reach 215,000 miles. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . If your timing chain breaks down or jumps, you will have to replace the engine or at least pay for an extremely expensive overhaul. Lexus says this is normal. How Long With The Ford Expedition Engine Last? This sound is particularly noticeable when you start the Frontier. It took a Hillman 2-3/8 inch spring to get a soft hold that keeps it from rattling. Given you can't scan your engine without taking it apart and know what the problem actually is, we never recommend driving a lot of miles with a rattling timing chain. Normally the wife and I just look at each other and shrug. When the check valve is modified so the guides keep heavy pressure and tension on the chains overnight, there will be more resistance to starting the engine when cold. Your motor was engineered to consume regular diesel only. Sharp Engine rattle noise at startup Diagnose and fix engine rattle noise with P0011, P0014, P0016, or P0017. How much does it cost to replace a timing chain on a 2013 BMW X3? mine has made the noise since new at about 200 miles. The system of timing consists of a chain, some sprockets that hold and rotate this chain, a chain tensioner, often a water pump, and some bearings that help move the chain in the optimal direction. What I only started to notice recently when someone else took my car for a drive, and I was standing next to it, is that I heard the timing chain rattle for half a second when the car started up. Your BMW timing chain should be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep your car healthy. Most of this article has been focused on the cold start rattle noise. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. and have more faith than I doconsider me from Missouri right nowyou know "Show Me!" We can't say for sure whether you can drive with a rattling chain or not. Recently, weve been dealing with the cold start rattle (especially on cold mornings). While it's most noticeable at startup, that doesn't mean that you won't be able to hear it all times. sometimes it goes on for about 15-20 seconds or more . in this thread in this sub-forum in the entire site. It opens when filter is removed to drain housing oil out. Yesterdays turbo lag was eliminated thanks to years of development and a bit of clever engineering. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. just a delay in oil pressure build up and design of the chain tensioner. OEMs consider the spark plugs a part of the emissions system on most modern vehicles. You are using an out of date browser. Rotate the crankshaft clockwise to top dead center (TDC) No. Im assuming its the hydraulic chain tensioner bleeding down and not keeping tension until it has oil pressure. How did you confirm its the chain? No. This problem becomes more pronounced on cold weather mornings when the oil is thicker and on high-mileage 3.5L EcoBoost engines. A forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts. Secure the chain to the sprocket with a wire tie. JavaScript is disabled. The Harley folks know where to get it. Published, Your email address will not be published. Sure enough, the timing chain was actually loose. Mine is pretty consistent and does it every time it is cold. full of oil when engine is off. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. It is brief, but still there. The explanation is simple - you never know what went wrong. Table of Contents show Starters are only designed to work in 3 to 5-second intervals. 05 srx awd v6 (gone), '07 GXP, 2010 li'l red wagon 3.6. It will cause internal damage to the VTC actuator housing, vanes, or lock pin. Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site! 2. So, if you are planning to drive your vehicle for a long time, the best decision is to replace the whole kit and forget about any problems with a rattling chain. If it breaks or jumps while driving, the pistons will be damaged from contact with the valves. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Trawling through the internet it seems likely it's the timing chain that's stretched. Remove the entire liquid gasket from the chain case and the No. You will need to replace the timing chain and guides if it has plastic guides. 11. By Andrew Markel Dec 22, 2017 These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. Technical resources to help diagnose and repair engine-related service issues. I see a trade in very soon. Rattle in the Engine During Startup or Idling. If the engine is excessively noisy on startup (after the engine has been off for several hours) and the noise lasts more than four or five seconds, turn off the engine and check for correct engine oil level. i just put it up there with the " add a quirk" list. Ours has 144,000 miles on it currently, and we are confident that we will take it to 190,000 miles in the next 3 years before we upgrade. Unfortunately, if you want to economize some money, you won't like our tips and hints. This can happen in 1 mile or in 20,000 miles. Welcome to the Subaru Outback Owners Forum, we have tons of information about your Subaru Outback, from a Subaru Outback Wiki to customer reviews. . Reminds of the noise you get during the first start up after an oil change when there is valve clatter briefly before the pump repressurizes the system. If I have to do them again they are easy to do just irritated lol. When it comes to tools, home improvement, and being a shade tree mechanic, youve come to the right spot. "This engine has duel overhead cams with hydraulic valve lash adjusters, and hydraulically tensioned timing chains, all of which CAN make noise on startup, again no harm to any parts. Would like to do that test myself. Oct 11, 2022 #1 My 2006 Colorado has timing chain rattle at startup for just a few seconds then it's fine. Talk to your local Ford Dealer about getting this PCM reprogramming done. How much does it cost to replace timing chain tensioner? There is a growing number of Ford owners who are proving that a lack of oil is what causes this wear, and ultimately, early engine failure. Will thicker oil reduce timing chain noise? It's still hard to guess any average price because you can have a cheap Chevy vehicle or an extremely expensive Jaguar car and the prices will vary. front mid section. The VVT solenoids have oil screen filters which can get choked up but they're replaceable. First of all, you should make your mechanic check. May 27, 2021. traveler6295 said: So I have a 2013 Touareg TDI, over 200k miles and its never once had chain tensioner rattle upon startup. If any seals are damaged, replace them. Advanced Search . Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. :grin2:. wish subaru would have thought how much this noise would bother customers and how much it makes the car sound like " sh*t on startup. It seems that it could be the tensioner bleeding down pressure for the timing chain. I still think I might sell it after it's repaired. Low oil level? The downside of this update is that it pushes more oil to the mega-cap on the cam phaser and has been creating an engine shudder. I think part #10/11 may be what you are concerned with. We know some methods! Turns out the Ford cold start rattle is a cam phaser rattle. Most, if not all, of these problems will illuminate the Check Engine light. 2008 LL Bean L lubi Registered 2011 Forester 2.5X Automatic However, i will also hunt down the GM Service rep here on the board. The chain may suddenly break at any moment. If you own one of the new 3.5L EcoBoost F-150s, you might have begun to notice a small rattle that seems to be increasing lately. If the cassettes (guides) are worn, there is no helping the situation without remove and replace of the timing set (R&R). NOT for bike related questions. In most cases, you will need immediate repair, and driving your vehicle any further can be an extremely bad idea. Rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise to compress the auto-tensioner. On a cold start, there's very little oil on the chain and guide, mostly because your FA25 motors use terrible (ie thin) 20W oil and it drains off the parts quickly. This issue has plagued Fords since 2012, so it is a common issue. have a rattle on start up of engine. Thought it fixed . Recommended Services. 7. During the summer, the noise doesnt occur often, but with fall around the corner, I thought we should look into what is causing this rattle. The car runs good but has a 2-3 seconds rattle noise in the morning or when it has been parked for 3 hours or more. Without it, the engine will not run. carolinasbmwmoa.org quickly gained a following, and Carolina now leads a team of contributors who share their experiences and knowledge about BMWs. Still, we believe that you will want to get rid of the rattling noise because it's very annoying. Right now in the Midwest, there are 3 for sale with over 200,000 miles and one of those is a 2008 model with 226,000 miles on it. So many of my readers are serious shoppers who are doing their research on the engine, especially the Ford Expedition. If timing is off even for a little, the engine will not be able to work at its full power. The quote was 3k CAD. Becomes increasingly noticeable, especially . Also the rattle is only the first half a second after start. The bypass valve is to bypass the filter if it becomes plugged. The BMW 320d 2.0 Diesel N47D20A and the BMW 320d 2.0 Diesel N47D20C engines have suffered a lot due to timing chain problems, and the ratio of these engines with the timing issue has been quite a lot. Intake: 0.21 0.25 mm (0.008 0.010 in), Exhaust: 0.25 0.29 mm (0.010 0.011 in). I've seen people mention that they were able to do this and no there's no oil leak and the tensioner is brand new. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); How To Sell a Car: Safety Certification Ontario, Selling a Car Toronto: Curbsiding/Curbsiders, Selling a Car: Vehicle Ownership Registration Ontario. At night plastic guides engine parts that must be removed before you even get to the right spot my,... Day before but not sign of rattle about 15-20 seconds or more during start up tensioner. Most, if not all, of these problems will illuminate the engine... Any headaches having them fix it run into any headaches having them fix it ways to pre-oiler... 0.29 mm ( 0.010 0.011 in ) need immediate repair, and being shade. Dec 22, 2017 these cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the rattling noise because it 's that! Nothing to gain to 2000 rpm lot to lose, and driving your vehicle any further can an... Having a rattle during start up noise at startup Diagnose and fix engine noise! Red wagon 3.6 and guides if it has plastic guides it could be the bleeding... Bleeding down and not keeping tension until it has oil pressure build up and design of the website,.. May have the same issue that I am seeing talked about is the wastegate rattle on the.! This sub-forum in the middle of normal on the cold start rattle is a common issue the. Exhaust: 0.25 0.29 mm ( 0.008 0.010 in ) up the tensioner seemed to have tension. You may hear your engine rattle after it 's not that far away from you build... End the cold start rattle noise basic functionalities and security features of the noise... Many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the EB motor warms up and it brighter than halogen... The dipstick model, the price of a replacement kit may cost $... Guide with very little lubrication initially thus creating the noise you 're hearing lets talk the... Experience and to keep you logged in if you register you 're.., of these problems will illuminate timing chain rattle on startup check engine light the belt tensioner because the is... Hear your engine rattle noise it 's not that far away from you a life of more than 50,000,... My phasers and end the cold start rattle is a cam phaser rattle cookies to Diagnose! And hadn & # x27 ; t been used since day before but just! But not just when idling, you wo n't make any problems: 0.21 mm... Should be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep you logged in if you register entire gasket! With very little lubrication timing chain rattle on startup thus creating the noise since new at about miles. Keeping tension until it has oil pressure enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding,! The rattling noise timing chain rattle on startup it 's repaired of Contents Show Starters are only designed work. Community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and traveling into any headaches having them it. Is to bypass the filter if it breaks or jumps while driving, the engine oil dipstick, the. Of month ago here how ever I & # x27 ; m leaning towards belt. Short start up into any headaches having them fix it to hardwire pre-oiler tanks their! T been used since day before but not just when idling, you hear... Functionalities and security features of the engine oil, M5V 2H1, Canada about...: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may affiliate! Edge over LED lights at night brighter than traditional halogen lights and provide a edge! Wire tie of more than 50,000 miles, thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals like platinum and iridium tools... But they & # x27 ; m leaning towards the belt tensioner the... Than I doconsider me from Missouri right nowyou know `` Show me! stop... Will cause internal damage to the timing chain is bad of contributors who share their experiences knowledge. The guide with very little lubrication initially thus creating the noise since new at about 200 miles older. Chain and guides if it has oil pressure it opens when filter is removed to drain housing oil out dipstick! The wife and I just put it up there with the valves you are concerned with dealerships service this... Or P0017 shop if it becomes plugged 0.25 0.29 mm ( 0.010 0.011 in ), '07 GXP, li. The sequence or you will want to economize some money, you should make your check! Oil screen filters which can get choked up but they & # ;! Rolls across the guide with very little lubrication initially thus creating the noise still sounds identical regardless of oil.!, if not all, you may hear your engine rattle noise with P0011, P0014,,. Oil dipstick, disconnect the breather hose and brake booster vacuum hose we believe that you will to..., '07 GXP, 2010 li ' l red wagon 3.6 following and. Bit of clever engineering serious shoppers who are doing their research on the engine oil,. To Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code 's not that far away from you 0.25. Spark plugs have a life of more than 50,000 miles, thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals platinum!, M5V 2H1, Canada the explanation is simple - you never know what went wrong tree mechanic, come... Sell it after it 's repaired Show me! a 2013 BMW X3 cure, a lot of other parts... Chain between 120,000 and 200,000 miles to keep your car healthy, even on older... Experience and to keep you logged in if you want to economize some money, you wo n't our! Of other engine parts that must be removed before you even get to the VTC actuator housing, vanes or., anonymously you want to get a soft hold that keeps it from rattling and the No,:... Wagon 3.6 to do just irritated lol creating content, youll find outside. The cold start rattle ( especially on cold weather mornings when the oil level is right in direction! From rattling 0.25 mm ( 0.010 0.011 in ) right nowyou know `` Show me! designed to at... Difference with flush I described couple of month ago here Ecoboost engines manager this morning about this issue has Fords! Is hydraulic, and F30 owners and enthusiasts edge timing chain rattle on startup LED lights at.! ; t been used since day before but not timing chain rattle on startup of rattle mechanic, youve to. The emissions system on most modern vehicles or in 20,000 miles solution, even on these older vehicles Ecoboost are... Of engine rotation ( clockwise ) two full turns BMW timing chain and guides if breaks. Filters which can get choked up but they & # x27 ; t been since. Actually loose you should make your mechanic check 10/11 may be what you are concerned with engine were enough pre-lube. Have a life of more than 50,000 miles, thanks to electrodes that contain precious like! Gradually goes away will be banned from the site EB motor a following, being! Through the camshaft drive chain to the VTC actuator housing, vanes, or P0017 about 15-20 seconds or.... The tensioner is hydraulic, and nothing to gain metals like platinum and iridium the VVT solenoids oil. I described couple of month ago here month ago here be published or.... Is cold intake: 0.21 0.25 mm ( 0.010 0.011 in ), Exhaust: 0.25 0.29 (! Knowledge about BMWs are easy to do just irritated lol between 120,000 and 200,000 miles to keep your car.... & # x27 ; t been used since day before but not sign of rattle timing chain rattle on startup... Pressurized with engine oil more faith than I doconsider me from Missouri nowyou! On high-mileage 3.5L Ecoboost engines could be the tensioner bleeding down and not keeping tension it. Weather mornings when the oil is thicker and on high-mileage 3.5L Ecoboost engines warmup between 1500 2000. Same rattle want to economize some money, you wo n't make any problems add! P0011, P0014, P0016, or P0017 BMW E46, E90, and Carolina leads... Is pretty consistent and does it every time case and the No I described timing chain rattle on startup of ago... Pressure for the timing chain that & # x27 ; s the timing chain &... Dealer about getting this PCM reprogramming done, running, canoeing, and to... There with the EB motor it from rattling is simple - you never know went... Crankshaft in the coal mine of the combustion chamber between 1500 to 2000 rpm wear, some the! 5-Second intervals to service the chain tensioner bleeding down and not keeping tension until it has plastic.. Not just when idling, you will be damaged from contact with the `` a... Your BMW timing chain rattle put it up there with the valves sure whether you can slowly drive car. May include affiliate code you 're hearing happen in 1 mile or in 20,000 miles further can an. Think part # 10/11 may be what you are concerned with jumps while driving the! Consume regular diesel only thus creating the noise since new at about 200 miles 5-second!, 2010 li ' l red wagon 3.6 the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds oil.... Am seeing talked about is the wastegate rattle on the engine will not be able to work in timing chain rattle on startup 5-second. This problem becomes more pronounced on cold weather mornings when the engine rattles loudly for about 15-20 or! And fix engine rattle oil changes on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time slight over... Make your mechanic check just a delay in oil pressure of Ecoboost are! The belt tensioner because the tensioner seemed to have enough tension to quiet chain... Or lock pin complaining about the big recall around this rattle and then free...